For the past year-and-a-half, Allison Alley has led Compassion Canada as its president and CEO. But when she took the job, there was no way she could anticipate what 2020 had in store for the world. Compassion Canada’s mission to end poverty for children is challenging in its own right, but the COVID-19 pandemic added an extra layer of complexity to an already demanding task.
“Through the COVID reality specifically, we’re dealing with all kinds of secondary impacts: hunger, disease and hygiene needs,” Allison told Leading With Nice. “Overnight, the numbers of people that we care for changed from two-million kids to about six-million people now that we’re caring for entire families.”
As difficult as the last year has been, Allison was able to reflect on her year in leadership in the blog post “12 things I’ve learned in the last 12 months.” The pandemic and subsequent isolation played a big part in the discovery of some of her most critical work: building and upholding rhythms and relationships that sustain a healthy and a whole life — and how that directly impacts her role as a leader.
“In my context … it’s been caring for my physical well-being, taking rest and replenishment and sleep and recreation seriously, more seriously than I ever have in my life,” Allison says. “Thinking about my socio-emotional needs and learning how to deal with stress and emotions in healthy and productive ways. Rhythms to care for my mental health cognitively was a huge and actually quite surprising one this year.
“What are the most essential, critical things that you need to prioritize so you are well and you are whole? And then that spills over. It gives you energy and focus and stamina and clarity and connection to be able to really lead effectively.”
Check out the podcast below to hear more about the challenges Allison has faced and — in her words — how they’ve been a constant reminder of the need to keep learning and growing as a leader.
Allison Alley:
Communicate candidly, work collaboratively and interact compassionately. Be transparent, be authentic, be candid. Because when they experience that, they’re going to stay longer, they’re going to give more, they’re going to be healthier in the process.
Mathieu Yuill:
Good day, and welcome to the Leading With Nice interview series podcast. We want to help you inspire others, build loyalty and get results. My name is Mathieu Yuill, and I am super excited to have you here for today’s guest. So whether you’re listening at home or in your car, you’re going to really enjoy this one. And if you’re listening in your car, my question is, where are you going? Can you take me with you? I just want to get out. We’re recording this just at the coldest time of January. I’m quite envious you have a place to go and somewhere to be.
Mathieu Yuill:
Today on our show, we have Allison Alley, who is the president and CEO of Compassion Canada. If you don’t know what that is, Allison will share a bit about what they do. And there is a reason I wanted to have Allison on. It was actually an inspiration from my mom. So Pat Yuill, shout out to you, hashtag moms, I guess.
Mathieu Yuill:
And so Compassion Canada offers a number of things. One of the things they do is they enable you to help sponsor a child. And I’ll let Allison describe more of that. But my mother and our family, we do that. And we got an email from Compassion. It included a link to a blog Allison had written. Do you know when you read something, and you’re just like, “Oh yeah, this is me. I get this.”
Mathieu Yuill:
So I wanted to have her on and just dig a bit deeper into some of the heart behind that. So, Allison, welcome to the podcast today.
Allison Alley:
It is great to be with you, Mathieu. And thank you, Mathieu’s mom, for really inviting me here. I appreciate that.
Mathieu Yuill:
It’s funny. She’s a good connector that way. She see things that people, things they’d be interested in. So can you just tell us a bit about Compassion Canada, what it is, what you do? Somebody at home will be listening to you and be like, “Oh, I want that.” So just right off the start, how can people connect with the organization? I’d love to hear about that.
Allison Alley:
Yeah, you bet. So Compassion is a global child development organization that exists to end poverty in the lives of kids and their families. And so we’re not a new organization. We’ve been around since the 1950s, and we work in 25 low-income economies and serve over 2 million children. And so our partner is one that we partner with local churches and local communities who develop kids holistically. So we help them care for their whole self, so that these changed kids can, in turn, change their communities.
Allison Alley:
And through this COVID reality specifically, we’re dealing with all kinds of secondary impacts of that, hunger and disease and hygiene needs. And so in this season, we’re spending a lot of time caring for families. And overnight then, the numbers of people that we care for changed from 2 million kids to about 6 million people now that we’re caring for their whole family.
Allison Alley:
So I lead our efforts here in Canada, and we have 12 other countries that work to raise awareness and raise resources so people can get involved in saving lives and transforming families and communities.
Mathieu Yuill:
And the post that I’ll be referencing, and it’s in the show notes if you are on the Leading With Nice email lists, which if you’re not, you can get to it at leadingwithnice.com and sign up for the newsletter. And the blog post was titled 12 Things I’ve Learned in the Last 12 Months. So we’re talking about things you learned in 2020-ish, and of course, as you know, so much has been happening. So the link is down below in the show notes or in the email. Check it out. But also I’m really curious, which of these 12 things did you find the most surprising to learn?
Allison Alley:
I think, for me, it may not be the most surprising in isolation, but the most surprising how critical it has been. And that would be the importance of leading out of the depth of your being and not the shallowness of your doing, especially through crisis. And what I mean by that is I have learned, leading through 2020, that really some of the most critical work I did was to build and uphold rhythms and relationships that sustain a healthy and a whole life.
Allison Alley:
And so, for me in my context, when I say depth of being and your whole self, it’s been caring for my physical well-being, taking rest and replenishment and sleep and recreation seriously, more seriously than I ever have in my life. Thinking about my socio-emotional needs and learning how to deal with stress and emotions in healthy and productive ways. Rhythms to care for my mental health cognitively was a huge and actually quite surprising one this year.
Allison Alley:
What information am I absorbing and reading? Is it enriching? Is it growing me? Is it truth? Can I trust it? Relationally connecting with others, remembering the priorities in my life, which is my husband and my kids. And I’m a Christian who leads in a faith-based context, so spending time praying in God’s word. And I just found that without that, because I had moments, all kinds of moments, where I compromised these things. And when you do that leading through crisis, that’s when you’re leading from a place of depletion or disconnect or distraction, which compromises your own well-being and the well-being and effectiveness of what you’re aiming to do with those who follow you and who you lead.
Mathieu Yuill:
Okay. I did not expect you to drop so much gold all at the start of this. Everybody, stop. Push the 15-second skip back two or three times and listen to that nine or 10 times. We’ve talked about this with other people on the podcast and on the blog, and I’m going to summarize a few key points. What I heard there was you’re doing too much right now. You’re probably doing too much, and you need to shift your paradigm as to what’s really important. You didn’t say those exact words, but does that make sense to you?
Allison Alley:
That’s exactly it. What are the most essential, critical things that you need to prioritize so you are well and you are whole? And then that spills over. It gives you energy and focus and stamina and clarity and connection to be able to really lead effectively. And it requires ruthless planning and discipline to say, “What are the most important things? How do I get them in my calendar, have people hold me accountable and live out those things first?”
Mathieu Yuill:
I don’t want to talk about our company. But one decision that I made is we, of course, had a few products we were going to launch in 2021. And one of the key members of our team has two young kids at home, and I made the decision. I’m like, “Yeah, you know what? You’re not going to work as much, for now. We’re to going to impact your salary or benefits or anything, but you’re just working less because you have things to do.” And that means our company will not be as profitable this year and not achieve all the goals we set out, but that just made sense to me.
Mathieu Yuill:
What you just said, I’m like, “Yes. I wish I could have articulated it as eloquently as you just did, but that’s the ethos.” And if you’re a leader today, follow your people on social. If you see them posting about being stressed and worried, man, ask yourself, what’s the real cost of what you’re asking them to do? And I think that’s what I heard from Allison as well.
Mathieu Yuill:
You, of course, have been leading in many years. Right now you are president and CEO, but you have been in other positions, including you had a role of director of advocacy. But leadership, when you’re the boss, it’s different. What doesn’t change though in leading, regardless of your title or position?
Allison Alley:
Yeah. So a lot does change, for sure. You wear more hats, you have more stakeholders, you’re navigating more complexity. But my gut answer to you, Mathieu, or what I hope to be true is what doesn’t change is me.
Allison Alley:
Someone gave me really good advice early on before I stepped into this specific role that I’m in. And it’s, “Make sure that you stay human and you stay humble on your leadership path.” And to me, it means be Allison. Be you. Be your true, authentic self, warts and all, as they say. Because it’s you who the board of directors, in my context, asked to step into this role. So don’t lose your humanness and who you are.
Allison Alley:
And humility, of course. I think what can so often happen, and I’m only a year into this. Call me up and see how this goes in five years. But I think so often your title or your authority or the fact that people call you up to talk about leadership on podcasts can start to impact your ego. And I think to get really real about what you know, what you don’t know, to listen and learn and love and serve those around you as you lead them.
Allison Alley:
And when I moved into this role, I had a lot of goals and choices and plans that I had put in place and mapped out. But a few key things that I wrote on a sticky note that stayed on my desk for a long time was communicate candidly, work collaboratively and interact compassionately. And it was just that’s who I think I have been as a leader.
Allison Alley:
Be transparent, be authentic, be candid. Listen, and learn and work with others. Don’t allow yourself to get isolated to the degree that you can control that. And love. Lavish love and generosity and service on those you lead. Because when they experience that and they trust you and they respect you and they feel cared for, they are going to stay longer. They’re going to, they’re going to give more. They’re going to be healthier in the process. So I hope me, that those values that I long to hold, I don’t change based on moving into a different position.
Mathieu Yuill:
It’s worth repeating the sticky note one more time if you missed it the first way through.
Allison Alley:
Communicate candidly, work collaboratively and interact compassionately.
Mathieu Yuill:
There’s a book, and I’m so bad at book titles, but there is a book about candor.
Allison Alley:
Radical Candor.
Mathieu Yuill:
Radical Candor. Google Radical Candor by Kim Scott. Check it out. It’s a great audio book too, if you want to do it that way. If you want to dive deep into more of what Allison just spoke about, then definitely check that book out.
Mathieu Yuill:
To continue on that theme, I was speaking with another CEO that I work with, and he shared with me there’s been nights when he’s going to bed, and he’s just on the verge of tears because he’s thinking about the employees that work for him and how is he going to make it work. His business was desperately impacted by COVID, and there’s nobody else at a peer level with him in his company.
Mathieu Yuill:
And you write about, in your blog post it’s number 11, about the loneliness of leadership. Can you just share more about what that looks like and what that means? And especially people that report and somebody that are not the CEO or president or founder of their own company. I just want you to listen to this, not because I want you to feel pity for your leader. But maybe if you’re interested in growing in empathy for them, really listen to this, and I want you to daydream about what Allison will share here. And also read the blog post because it’s great. But Allison, can you share a bit more on that?
Allison Alley:
Yeah. Definitely, it relates to being the buck-stops-with-you person and the weight and the burden that you uniquely carry that truly, no matter how much preparation I put into this transition, I did not fully understand until I stepped into it. And some of it relates to, as you said, you’re not part of a first team in quite the same way. I report to a board, so it can feel like I have 10 bosses, though they remind me often they are one boss and one voice. And I lead a team, and I’m on it, but I lead it. And so I stand alone in both of those contexts.
Allison Alley:
And someone said to me once, and it’s a little bit negative, but I think it clarifies in some ways. They said, “In its worst state, to be a leader is to be unappreciated and misunderstood.” And I’ve come to realize what they mean by that is that people don’t always appreciate or understand the choices you’re making, the alternatives you’re facing, and therefore the direction that you’re going, because you inevitably have access to more or different information than they do. And without that, in the absence of the information or the conversations that you know and you’re having, they’re not always going to appreciate or understand. And so you can feel alone. You can be alone actually in many ways too.
Allison Alley:
But I think the other thing that happens, Mathieu, is other people can build walls around you because of your title and the degrees of separation between them and you and the authority that you hold. And therefore, they’re less likely to come to you or to be comfortable around you or to tell you what they really think because of those realities. And so it really requires you to be a wall breaker and to counteract what can so naturally happen by those around you.
Mathieu Yuill:
Man, this is a lot. This is really a lot to think about. And for those of you listening at home, I actually prepared questions in advance. So I know what I should be asking next, but I’m finding myself just thinking and positing and just wanting to just ruminate on that. So wow, Allison, thank you. That is amazing.
Mathieu Yuill:
So actually the question I had next, and I was thinking as you’re talking about the different leaders who might be feeling lonely, and it’s not only, of course, CEOs or founders. But maybe you’re the board chair for a nonprofit, or maybe you lead a neighborhood association group where, even if it’s informal, where people are looking at you to lead, you’re probably feeling this way.
Mathieu Yuill:
You may not have articulated it, and you may not be able to put your finger on it. But if what’s been talked about right now is resonating with you, I asked Allison if she could maybe think of some tips to help leaders who are feeling that loneliness, what they can do. So Allison, did you come up with some ideas or some thoughts you can share?
Allison Alley:
Yeah, absolutely. So on the personal level, and this is advice that came to me from one of my mentors just only about 18 months ago. It was actually my former pastor. I said, “It’s really hard for me to feel connected and to feel a sense of community because I feel like there’s so few people that truly understand just the uniqueness of my world.” To which he eloquently and in quite hilarious ways reminded me that in some ways I can be a unicorn in not positive ways.
Allison Alley:
But he said, “Allison, you need to compartmentalize your life and go, okay, you’re a mom. Who are the other moms in your life that you can connect with and talk about your kids? Church matters to you, so build relationships in your church. Get in a small group and connect on that level. You need friends, just other women that you can connect with unrelated to if you’re moms or not or you go to the same church, who are your friends and connect with other first-chair leaders find other leaders in other organizations that you can have a heart-to-heart with. And in fact, you’re safe to do that because you’re not in the same context.”
Allison Alley:
And so I’ve been really privileged in this season to build relationships with those who, quite frankly, would be seen as competitors in the not-for-profit sector that we’ve had virtual coffees. And I co-chair a group of charity executives that are getting together every two months to connect and learn and support one another. And then I built a professional support system. So I have an executive coach that I meet with every month and another leader of a foundation that invests in not-for-profit leaders that I connect with regularly to be a formal sounding board and voice into my life and into my leadership.
Allison Alley:
So those things have been life-giving for me, but I had to compartmentalize and go, “There’s not going to be one person or one group that’s going to speak into the multifaceted areas of my life and my leadership. I need to really parse that apart.”
Allison Alley:
But the other thing I would say, when I talked about what happens organizationally and the walls that can be built, I’ve tried a variety of things in this last year. But one, for the sake of time, is I started this two-and-a-half years ago when I became the president-elect in the organization. And I started something called Coffee with Allison. And we’re not a huge organization. We’re about 125 people. But I started connecting every Friday or at least once a week, sometimes different days, for 90 minutes with four staff. And they would come into my office. We now gather virtually, and we would have a casual and a candid two-way conversation where they would work with me, I would work with them to build shared relationship, shared understanding, to grow our knowledge by asking questions, like, “What do I not want to know that I probably should know? What’s that thing that if we could just fix organizationally, your life would be so much more enjoyable here?”
Allison Alley:
And so those two-way conversations has helped a lot in breaking down those walls and barriers and being Allison to these people and for them to feel safe to be real with me.
Mathieu Yuill:
Very cool. I have two friends. One is a lead pastor at a church. One other is an electrical contractor who owns his own company. And we three get together. Obviously, our worlds do not really intersect in terms of the type of business we do, but it’s just so helpful to have other leaders that are kind of like the first chair, that understand, kind of get what you’re talking about.
Mathieu Yuill:
And there’s a great book that I read. It’s Leading from the Second Chair. And it speaks about how, if you are the number two in an organization, like the COO or chief of staff or general manager, it’s a great resource. I’d recommend both people that are sitting in the first chair and the second chair give it a read.
Mathieu Yuill:
Now finally, and I so appreciate your time and just how free you’ve been, I could wrap this up and sell it as a masterclass. But I know that for time, you and your husband were volunteering with your daughters at a homeless shelter. And I’m just really curious what you saw out of your two daughters that taught you a bit about leadership by looking at what they were doing and seeing and looking at it through their eyes.
Allison Alley:
Yeah. Yeah. I want to preface this with, I don’t claim to have this whole thing figured out. People ask me a lot about, how do you raise compassionate kids, and what does it look like to live that out as a family? And we are on that journey like the rest of them. And so I’ve learned a lot.
Allison Alley:
One of the things that we talked about early on as a family, and my kids are still young, by the way, they are 11 and nine years old, super fun, busy age. They’re next to me in class as we speak, hashtag leading through pandemic. But we talked about we really wanted to organically integrate compassionate activities into our life. And we try and do that in a variety of ways, focus on learning, focus on giving strategically and on the spot, and focus on living. What are the ways that we can go on less to give more, or where can we serve practically together? How do we conserve water and help kids understand why that matters and how that plays out differently?
Allison Alley:
And through it, I have been reminded that leadership is not about imparting your wisdom and knowledge and direction to those who follow you, but about cultivating an environment where the thoughts and ideas of others can come to fruition and really strengthen your own thinking and strengthen the decisions that you make.
Allison Alley:
So certainly in our family, our kids continue to shape and challenge me every day, asking questions. “Mom, you talk about conserving water, but your lights are on all the time,” for example. “What’s that all about?” or We give in this way, but what about these opportunities? How can we help in that?” And to really involve them and learn from them in the process.
Allison Alley:
And I would be remiss not to say, Mathieu, that in my role at Compassion Canada, it is the privilege of my life to be a child advocate specifically. And so I strongly believe and have learned a lot by being a parent, and the need for us to see children and youth as agents of change in their own life and in the lives of those around them, for them to have a seat at the table, for their voices to be heard and to be valued.
Allison Alley:
And of course, as I implied, for them to play a critical role in the solutions that impact them and will frankly impact their generation. But again, the leadership learning, it’s not about what you know and you think and your knowledge, but it’s about the thoughts and ideas and collective wisdom and knowledge that really comes from the diverse team around you and from the voices, often the voices that are marginalized and not often heard that you need to illuminate the most in your decision-making table.
Mathieu Yuill:
Before we close up, where are you? And I’m looking for a real practical thing. So where are you learning from? Is there a book on your desk? Is there a blog you’re reading? Is there a podcast or a show you listen to? People have heard what you had to say and are like, “I want more of whatever feeds her.” Where can they turn to? Where can they check out?
Allison Alley:
Yeah. I am a learner, so I do a lot of reading, certainly podcasts, lots of informal listening to other people. So things on my desk, I have Radical Candor on my desk. I have White Fragility on my desk. I have The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell, which is about how to create movements and momentum. And I have Necessary Endings on my desk by Dr. Henry Cloud.
Mathieu Yuill:
Henry Cloud is amazing. Oh yeah. Read it now because trust me, you have a necessary ending. Go read. Oh my gosh, so good.
Allison Alley:
Yeah, no doubt. Let me name one more, by the way, in relation to the first question you asked. I have a book called God in My Everything. It may not be for all of your listeners, but maybe it will, even if you’re not someone who believes in the God that I believe in. But it talks a lot about our whole self and learning from ancient rhythms of people who cared for their whole self and lived life differently than us in ways that contributed to their well-being. So that’s one I would recommend as well. I listen to a lot of different leadership podcasts. I follow HBR and those kinds of things. So I listen to a wide variety of stuff.
Mathieu Yuill:
Cool. Well, listen, I’m half thinking now you’re going to start getting emails about people that listened to this that want to come to Coffee With Allison. So we may need to do a yearly Coffee With Allison or something for non-Compassion employees because that sounds amazing.
Allison Alley:
Oh, that would be cool.
Mathieu Yuill:
Allison, I just want to say thank you, of course. But also, there’s a whole bunch of people that made this happen today. The first is Cindy Craig who organized our calendars and worked with Andrew on your staff to coordinate time for us to talk. Jamie Hunter, he’s going to put together a great blog post in all of the social. The reason you probably know about this is because of Jamie’s work. Naomi Grossman helped me get prepared. She works with me, but she is a journalist by training and helps me come up with great questions. And Austin Pomeroy is the audio editor. I actually sound much worse in real life, but Austin makes me sound golden. So man, I appreciate you, dude. Thank you so much for the work you put into this. And of course, Allison, man, can we be neighbors? I want to talk over our backyard fences. I could do this all day. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts today.
Allison Alley:
Oh, my pleasure, Mathieu. It was really a joy to be with you. And thank you again to your mom, but thank you to you for your support of the work of Compassion and for inviting me into this conversation.
Mathieu Yuill:
All right. For more on this, head to leadingwithnice.com where we want to help you inspire others, build loyalty and get results. We’ll talk to you next time.