Leading Into New Things with Monica Loewen

Monica Loewen:
And in one sense, you think an empathetic response should be easier, right? You don’t have to have the answers. You don’t have to fix anything. You’ve just got to sit with them. But actually, usually it is harder, because that’s uncomfortable. Oh man, I would rather write a list. Okay, we’re going to do this, or we’re going to phone this person, or we’re going to do this. And that’s not always the answer. Sometimes you’ve just got to learn to sit in it, because sometimes that’s all someone needs, is just that acknowledgement that I see you, I hear you, your feelings are valid, and I’m not going anywhere.

Mathieu Yuill:
Hey, and welcome to the Leading with Nice interview series. My name is Matthew Yuill, and we want to help you inspire others, build loyalty, and get results. Now, today, I know if you are a regular listener, you probably know that I say this a lot, this is a good friend of mine, because you know what, I have a lot of good friends that are awesome people and have a lot to share. So this is another one. Monica and I met in school. I’ll talk about that a bit later. But the reason I have her on today is because she’s mastered a few things, one of them being the pivot and another one being doing stuff, and actually, before we started recording, we were talking about her ability of getting stuff done. I purposely would not sit next to her in class so I didn’t feel lacking of myself for not being as productive. I’m only kidding, of course. Actually I sat near Monica a lot. But man, she gets things done.

Mathieu Yuill:
So a bit about Monica. First of all, you need to know that she’s the minister of community engagement at the Evangelical Free Church in Lethbridge. That’s in Alberta, for our American friends. It’s like Midwest North. She has recently completed a master’s in leadership and management from Briercrest Seminary. She’s a very proud mom of three adult children, whom, if you see on social, she has great relationships with and loves hanging out with them. And she’s lived her entire life in Southern Alberta and is currently living in Lethbridge with her husband, Terry. Monica, thank you so much for making time, and welcome here today.

Monica Loewen:
Matthew, I am honored and thrilled to be here. Thank you.

Mathieu Yuill:
This is going to be great. Okay, so as we’ve talked about leading up to this, there’s a lot of your life experience in the way you’ve approached work and life that I think people that listen to this will be able to take notes on, because you’re thoughtful, you are intentional about the way you move forward. So for you listening, if you’re at home, get out your notepad, open up a text file on your computer, because what’s going to happen naturally, like Monica doesn’t set herself up this way. She’s going to give you like checklists, and here are actionable items you can do and think about and be aware of. So be ready for that.

Mathieu Yuill:
Before we go any further, though, I just want to remind people that right now, a previous guest, Maria Locker, of RevolutionHER, we at Leading with Nice loved her so much we’re giving away five memberships to RevolutionHER. Just check out our website, check out the link on social, to enter to get one of those memberships at leadingwithnice.com.

Mathieu Yuill:
So Monica, okay, we need to start right here. When we first met, you had actually just begun, or you were in your earlier days as the executive director of the Lethbridge Pregnancy Care Center. And I remember you saying to me, we talked about jobs and readiness, and you had said that you didn’t really necessarily have the resume for it, but you knew you could do it. And you had a vision. You had the desire to do it, and the board of directors agreed and they hired you on. Now, you’ve moved into a pastoral role at a church. And again, you didn’t do a theology degree. You hadn’t worked at another church as a pastor or a minister before, but again, you’re confident in your ability to do this job.

Mathieu Yuill:
So from where I sit, I see a few attributes that you’d need to pull this off. First of it, it’s a bit of moxie, and I’m a big basketball fan, so I’m going to quote Toronto Raptor Fred VanVleet, who went undrafted, but now he makes 20 million a year. He says, “Bet on yourself.” So when you look inward, what is it that gives you the ability to step into these roles and even consider them in the first place?

Monica Loewen:
Well, first of all, thank you. Moxie is a very kind term, and I appreciate that, because I have definitely been described as other things that are less kind. What gives me the nerve to try these things? I think I’d have to start with how I grew up, with the example of my parents. I’m the oldest of seven kids. I grew up on a farm, and I learned really early the value of hard work. My parents started their own farm when I was 11 or 12. It was hard. Those first years, they just about lost everything. They worked hard, they trusted God, and today that little farm they started is a multimillion dollar operation, headed up by my dad, who for the record, is my hero.

Monica Loewen:
My dad has a grade eight education. He left home at 16, he moved across the country and had all kinds of different jobs, from a trucker to a helicopter mechanic. And it’s funny to hear him tell the stories of how he would hear a job opening or somebody would say, “Hey, you should try that,” and he’d be like, “Okay, I can do that.” He just went and did it. He didn’t question himself. He didn’t worry about proper qualifications, credentials. He just went to work. And so this same man, with his grade eight education, now sits on international boards, committees. He consults with government officials on agricultural matters. He just goes and does them.

Monica Loewen:
So to have that kind of example, and then [inaudible 00:05:46] side, my mom, who growing up quite often felt less, simply because she was a girl. And so for that reason, she was determined that not one of her five daughters would feel that way. She’s really encouraged all of us to step out and just to not accept any limitations that we might run into because of our gender. So I really didn’t learn it from a stranger. I’ve been encouraged my whole life to get out, do what I’m going to do, and do my very best at it, with the focus really being on how I worked rather than the work I was doing.

Mathieu Yuill:
Okay. For those of you keeping score at home, so far we have seven children and the grade eight education helicopter mechanic. I didn’t know that before. Oh my gosh. Could you imagine like, “Hey, I just got my helicopter back from the shop.” Well, who did it for you? “Oh, this guy with a grade eight education.” Perfect.

Monica Loewen:
Exactly.

Mathieu Yuill:
How do I not know this? FYI, Monica, from now on you should lead with I’m the oldest of seven kids.

Monica Loewen:
No, but you need to know my fun fact. When people say, “Tell us a fun fact that people don’t know,” it’s I’m the oldest of seven children, and at six foot one, I’m one of the shortest ones.

Mathieu Yuill:
What?

Monica Loewen:
That’s my fun fact.

Mathieu Yuill:
Amazing. Okay, I didn’t know that either. So you have four sisters and then two brothers.

Monica Loewen:
Yes, I do.

Mathieu Yuill:
When I come out to Lethbridge, I want to hear more about that. And I didn’t know that, you know what’s funny, I didn’t know that backstory, but that makes a lot of sense. Often some of the best examples are right at home.

Monica Loewen:
Right. They really, really are. And so I got to grow up with that kind of example, with parents who said, “Go and do it.” Also, I am a solid Enneagram three. So for anybody who’s not familiar with the Enneagram, a three is referred to as the achiever. Self-assured, charming, ambitious, competent, very status conscious, strive for advancement. And so really, I just see something I want to do, and I figure, “Hey, I should be able to do that.” And I just go and I get them out.

Mathieu Yuill:
Yeah. You know, one of the ways I think I saw that play out is we were in class and you were in the middle of dealing with stuff. So we would go for a week to Caronport, Saskatchewan, which is this little tiny village just west of Regina and Moose Jaw. And I think west, I think.

Monica Loewen:
Middle of nowhere.

Mathieu Yuill:
Yeah. And so we would spend a week in class straight, 40 hours. And I remember when I saw that played out is there is something the board had wanted you to do that you were like, not struggling with, but it was a lot of work. And then also one of your staff members was unsure of themselves. And I remember asking you, “Oh, can I help any way?” And you’re like, “Thank you. Your encouragement is great. I’m going to do X, Y, and Z.” And I was like, “Oh, that’s a very solid plan. That’s great work.” And even though it was a lot, and also we’re in the middle of master’s level study, so I saw that play out.

Mathieu Yuill:
Common theme in these two positions is that they’ve been about supporting people, and it can be really hard to pour that belief in someone else when they may not have it in themselves. So there must be times you want to give up on someone, but where do you draw the motivation? I’m asking this because a lot of leaders, I know I hear this, we get this in emails and I’ve talked to clients, they talk about like, “Oh, I want this more than the other person for them.” Where do you draw that motivation from, to continue giving of yourself that way?

Monica Loewen:
For sure. There’s been a lot of times where it would be easy to say, “You know what? Fine. You don’t want this? Good. I’m out.” It’s hard to go the distance with people, to stick with them for the long game. You see, I think the thing is, I’ve been there. I have been the one wanting to give up. I mean, life can be hard. There are seasons where you just want to throw in the towel.

Monica Loewen:
But the seasons that I was there, where I wanted to throw it in, when I couldn’t do it on my own, I had people who didn’t give up on me. I had people who kept picking me up, cheering me on, reminding me that I wasn’t alone, that I could do it. I think it’s in those seasons that our internal voice gets really, really loud, that nagging uncertainty in the back of your head. Brene Brown likes to talk about how we start to make up stories in our head, based on the facts that we think that we have, and those stories, man, they can completely color and sometimes skew how we see the entire world, how we see our role in it. And that’s where it’s key that you’ve got to have people you trust, key people that you can be open with, you can be vulnerable with, that you get to share that voice in your head and that they have the permission to speak truth back to you. And so I think when you are able to have those people in your life, and then in turn go and be that person to someone else.

Mathieu Yuill:
I was kind of picturing like, if there’s a straight line and you’re going to put points on it to represent your life, you should always have somebody you’re mentoring per se, or being that support person for, and you should always have somebody that is mentoring you or being a support person for you.

Monica Loewen:
Absolutely.

Mathieu Yuill:
Okay. What does that look like? Because when you were at the Pregnancy Care Center, you were the boss. So what does that look like when you’re the boss? Where do you find that other person to support you? Because you can’t dump it on your report, so that’s not fair, and it’s not their role. So where do you find that person?

Monica Loewen:
You know, actually this was something that I was thinking about when I was thinking about these questions. The thing about leadership, particularly senior leadership, it really is lonely at the top. There’s an expectation that you’ve got the answers. You’ve got it all together. You’ve got it figured out. But then when you don’t, you’re right, where do you share that? Because you can’t share down. Because you’re right, that’s unfair. It’s unprofessional. It’s all sorts of things. A lot of things, particularly working in nonprofit, you can’t just talk to your mom, because it’s things that are confidential.

Monica Loewen:
And so I think in those positions, in those senior leadership positions, it is particularly important to have people in your life. And so for me, it was working with other directors of other pregnancy care centers across the province. We had a tight network of people, because these were other leaders who knew what I was going through. There was enough distance that you could speak in some generalities and get the conversations out, but they knew what I was going through. So that shared common experience.

Monica Loewen:
But I think even beyond that, to have one good friend right in your world, who, you know what, and maybe you’re that person for each other, that confidentiality is valued, that they know you and that they have that permission to speak truth into your life. Those people who, when the imposter syndrome gets really, really loud, because I think that’s a big piece of leadership, or at least it is for me. I shouldn’t speak for leaders in general. But man, that is for me. I’ve gotten up and spoken at a lot of events, and I kid you not, every time I was still waiting for somebody to stand up and say, “Sit down, you don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Monica Loewen:
So you have people in your life who know you at that deep level, to say, “You can do this. You’ve got this.” But I think to balance that out then with are you pouring that into somebody else? You’re absolutely right. So being poured into, but then turn around and pour that into the next generation. Look around you. Who are the leaders up and coming? Who can you share this with? So right now, I have a really tight relationship with the woman who replaced me at the Pregnancy Care Center. We talk all the time. She asks me all sorts of questions. I’m able to cheer her on, to lead her in that and give that encouragement and all of that, because it’s been given to me.

Mathieu Yuill:
Hmm. One of the lessons I learned from my father, and actually I put this, I’m not sure if I did this via Leading with Nice or if I talked about it on my personal Instagram account, but he knew nothing of sports, but I umpired baseball down at the local park. And it was like my kind of part-time summer job. I think I got paid $10 and a Coke or something. Could you imagine being paid in sugary drinks today? That’d be like, you’d be murdered online. Anyhow, but regardless, he would come down and cheer me on as the umpire.

Monica Loewen:
Love it.

Mathieu Yuill:
Like, “Great call,” and he would cheer. And I remember the first time he did it, I didn’t know he was going to come. I turned around, and I was like, “Oh, that’s fascinating.” But the lesson I took away from that was, and you mentioned it in what you just said, and I wanted to highlight it, was it’s important to cheer somebody on, even if you don’t fully understand what they’re doing. Now, clearly I’m not suggesting ignorantly cheer somebody on because you might be encouraging them in a bad way. But you’re not going to be intimately involved anymore with the Pregnancy Care Center and its operations, obviously. You have another role, and that’s somebody else’s responsibility, but you do know that there’s good being done. And so it actually, what I loved about what you just shared there, the takeaway for me was that it gives you permission to enthusiastically cheer somebody on, even if you’re not in that clubhouse so much.

Monica Loewen:
Absolutely. And I think so leadership is very lonely, but yet we have a bit of a sense of competition, right? My experiences in nonprofit, I live in a city of 100,000 people. Donor dollars are limited. Grants are limited. But to be able to foster a culture of collaboration, of cheering each other on, I was actually part of a group of nonprofit leaders where we strived hard to encourage each other, to not look at each other as competition, because we were all lonely in our positions. So instead of being butted up against each other, fighting for the same dollars, to come to a space that I cheer you on, I acknowledge you, and I want to see you succeed, and knowing that they’re cheering back for you. So I think it’s a shift in a leadership culture, but it’s far healthier.

Mathieu Yuill:
That’s a common theme that’s coming out in this podcast, actually, is how we all address the loneliness. Mental note to look into what does it mean to support leaders in loneliness? Pretty much our whole conversation has been this. You’ve been speaking about empathy, and empathy is one of our core values here at Leading with Nice. It’s a key attribute business can use to grow. We actually believe being intentionally empathetic will increase your bottom line and generate revenue.

Mathieu Yuill:
So you exhibit a huge amount of empathy. And sometimes it’s really hard, because a lot of the issues you’ve just discussed, the self saboteur, the loneliness, the being burdened with making decisions. So I’m just curious, how can someone cultivate a posture of empathy like you live out yourself?

Monica Loewen:
I love that this is part of the conversation in a leadership podcast, Matthew. I love the heightened focus on these soft skills, for lack of a better term. Empathy, it’s the ability to feel with someone, to sit in their feelings with them. You’re not trying to fix them. You just want to let them know that they’re seen, because deep down, that’s what we all want, isn’t it? We want to be seen and recognized for who we really are. And that’s tough at the best of times, and even more so in a workplace. Too often, we look at this as a weakness, but I mean, let’s be real. Everybody’s got stuff going on, and we’ve got feelings about it. I think 2020 taught us that. We all struggle, and we struggle in different ways.

Monica Loewen:
And so just acknowledging that goes a long way. We’ve all got stuff, and you know what? You might not have had the same experience as a person across the table, but chances are, you’ve been in a situation that makes you feel similar to that. So go back, remember how you felt there, and just acknowledge their feelings. And I think everyone can grow in their ability for empathy. It’s just stopping and realizing the person across from you, they’re a person, too. And they’ve got stuff.

Monica Loewen:
Go back into your own experience and draw from that. As a follower of Jesus, the words of the Bible have a large role in my life. And so in one of his conversations with his followers, Jesus taught that to those who are given much, much will be expected of them. And this is a phrase used in many, many different areas. And actually, I think that’s also true in the area of life experience. For those who’ve experienced a lot, and I would be one of them, we have a greater opportunity to offer empathy.

Monica Loewen:
I often will look back at my life, and there’s been some ups and downs. And I’ve said, “Man, if I can take what I have been through, if I can take my crazy and I can use it for good, that is amazing.” And sometimes that is just sitting across from somebody saying, “Man, this is hard. I’m sorry.” I don’t need to fix it. And in one sense, you think an empathetic response should be easier. You don’t have to have the answers. You don’t have to fix anything. You’ve just got to sit with them. But actually, usually it is harder, because that’s uncomfortable.

Monica Loewen:
When somebody says, “I’m going through this,” and to just stop and say, “Man, that’s hard. I’m sorry.” And to just sit in this comfort, oh man. I would rather write a list. Okay, we’re going to do this or we’re going to phone this person and we’re going to do this. And that’s not always the answer. Sometimes you’ve just got to learn to sit in it, because sometimes that’s all someone needs, is just that acknowledgement that I see you, I hear you, your feelings are valid, and I’m not going anywhere.

Mathieu Yuill:
You’ve mentioned her. I’ll mention her, as well. Brene Brown has this great, like the difference between sympathy and empathy. So sympathy is like seeing somebody who fell in a hole and being like, “Oh, that looks like it sucks.” And empathy is saying like, “How are you doing?”

Monica Loewen:
Yeah, it’s crawling down in the hole.

Mathieu Yuill:
And in Toronto here, it was just concluded, there was a horrible attack where a man drove a van down the sidewalk and killed upwards of 10 people, injured 23 more. And there’s been a lot of conversation around generally his inability to feel empathy, which is not an excuse for his crimes, but that’s just one of the things that came out from the mental health reviews. And so there’s been a lot of conversation I’ve been following online around empathy and what it looks like for people that may not be geared towards it.

Mathieu Yuill:
And I read a great story of a young man who, out of this conversation, he shared this story. He attended a school in the States where there was a school shooting, and he felt fear during it. And he was scared after. It impacted him. He said, but what made him actually feel the most uncomfortable was seeing his sister cry, because her friend had been killed in the attack. And he, for the first time in his life, looked at his sister and felt her pain. And he said he didn’t know how to deal with it, he didn’t know to deal with feeling that level of empathy for somebody. And he said he wanted to run from it. So it is a bit of being comfortable in being uncomfortable.

Monica Loewen:
Yeah, it really is. It’s not an easy thing to do, but it’s valuable.

Mathieu Yuill:
I do want to talk about leadership and parenting, and you’re a mom, you’re a wife. You’re smart. You’re skilled. I’ve heard you speak about pursuing a PhD in the future. We’ve had lots of conversations about parenting and our kids. And so one of two things are true. Either your life is a hot mess, or you have found some way to strike balance. So this could be an entire podcast episode about what does that look like? But lots of listeners are in the same frame of reference as you are.

Mathieu Yuill:
So what are some things that you stay conscious of to ensure your life has some semblance of balance and you’re not headed to burnout? Because I do know, and you may not recognize this, but I believe in our conversations you maybe are subconsciously aware of not burning yourself out. So what are you doing that helps you prevent going down that path very quickly?

Monica Loewen:
Well, I don’t know. Do I have to pick one or the other, burnout or balance? Because honestly, it usually kind of depends on the day. Well, that’s not completely true, not anymore, anyhow. The hot mess days are fewer and further between. Only two of my three kids are living at home right now. They’re both second year post-secondary students. They’re pretty independent. In fact, they take pretty good care of their old mom, instead of the other way around. So that’s good.

Monica Loewen:
Over the last number of years, since I’ve been in leadership, there’s been a lot of talk about work life balance. And if you ask me, actually, it’s not reality. You’re not going to find balance, a perfect balance between your career and your personal life. That’s my opinion. But each are going to need more or give more at different times. When I started at the center, it was a brand new startup nonprofit. Man, that took some time. There was time when my kids for sure lost out on that end of the deal. But then were the years that my daughter was ill, and that’s where my home life had to take priority. And so then work took a bit of a backseat there. It really is a give and take.

Monica Loewen:
And so I think you need to take a look at your life, decide what’s important to you, and then figure out how much time and energy you’re going to put into each one. So that’s if you have a family, if you have a partner, if you have hobbies, things that are important to you, how much time are you going to put there? How much time are you going to put into work? It’s not easy, though, that pressure to perform at work, plus the adrenaline rush that comes with success. It makes it pretty appealing, actually, often for me, anyhow, to pour it all into my career. I would also have to say actually as a woman in the workplace at times, that pressure that I feel to keep it going, to not let my home life, to not let my kids slow me down. That’s a real thing that I need to battle, and I’m sure there are many women who could speak to that, or men who bear the main load of caring for family at home.

Monica Loewen:
So yeah, I don’t think balance is a thing, but you make your choices. But you spoke of burnout, and man, that is another thing that we’re hearing a lot more about, I think particularly within 2020. And I don’t know that I would say I’ve experienced burnout, but man, I skated pretty close to the edge of that, close enough to see over the edge and not like what I saw. So I mean, over the last 10 years, I built up a small nonprofit into a thriving social service agency. I got a master’s degree. I raised three kids on my own, one with some pretty serious health concerns. And I kept on pushing, just making it look easy, but man, it cost me.

Monica Loewen:
And I think having been that close to the edge, it’s a little easier now to see when I need to slow down, when I need to back away a little bit. And so maybe that comes with experience. Maybe it comes with age. Maybe it’s just paying a bit more attention to the things that are important to me and allowing myself to focus on those without feeling guilty, that piece of giving yourself permission, giving yourself permission to pour yourself into your work, if that is what is filling your cup right then. Because for myself, as a parent, there are days that work is a lot easier, because I can go to work and I can do the things and I can have results. I can accomplish something at the end of the day. There are people who report to me, who theoretically will do what I ask them to do.

Monica Loewen:
Anyone who has parented or been responsible for another person, there’s no guarantee they’re going to do what you ask them to do. There’s a lot of raising kids, at the end of the day, you’re like, I accomplished nothing. I did nothing. So for myself, man, going to work has a lot of reward to it. And so there’s been spaces where I’ve given myself permission to live in that. But there’s also times that I give myself permission to say, do you know what, work is not the end all for me, I’m going to stop and I’m going to invest at home now.

Monica Loewen:
I think one of the things I have learned, one of my biggest encouragements, is stop and look where are you irreplaceable? Which part of your life can no one else pick up, because that’s probably where you need to put the most of your energy. And this likeliest place is probably within your family. So whether that’s for a partner, for kids, aging parents, my mom has always told me with great love that none of us are indispensable. I would argue with her that she is indispensable to me. But in a work position, you know what, all of us can be replaced, and we are, right? I have gone through a transition the last year. And as much as I’m thrilled with how that transition went, a little part of it, it hurts a little bit, like, oh, well you didn’t need me, but it’s okay. They keep going. But at home it’s a little different.

Mathieu Yuill:
That rings so true. I was in a role for like 15 to 17 years, somewhere in there. And one of the big projects that we’re [inaudible 00:28:22] that I was really proud of was we redeveloped the logo for the organization and the brand and all that jazz. And I played, I was on a recreational soccer team with the graphic designer, that was previously on my team, that still worked there. And one night after soccer, and I’d been gone for about two years, maybe. So it’d be a good like 24 whole months. And he said to me, he’s like, “Oh hey, we’ve changed the logo just to comply with web standards, because it had a lot of gradients in it. So to comply to the web standards, we’ve made a one-color version that we’re using primarily now.”

Mathieu Yuill:
And I was livid. I was like, “How would you [inaudible 00:28:58]?” I immediately felt guilty, because I was like, oh, how stupid is that? But it’s so true. Man, thanks for bringing that back, Monica. Now I need to apologize to the new guy. And the guy, the guy that moved into my role, I was in his fricking wedding party. He’s a good friend of mine. There’s a lot of people in their cars or on their walks or at their desks feeling ashamed right now, I’m sure, because that is a reality, right?

Monica Loewen:
It is. And the point is not to cause shame. It’s to just stop, take a look at your life. Where are you irreplaceable? I mean, that doesn’t mean you can’t excel in your career, far from it. It just means you are going to have to make choices, and just look, at the end of your life, what do you want to be known for? What do you want to be known as? I mean, one of the assignments we did as part of our degree was write your eulogy, and looking back, man, someday, I would like to be known for what I accomplished. But more than that, I would like to be known as a loved wife, mom, daughter, friend, who also happened to have an amazing career and did fantastic things for people. But man, I want the people who love me, who are important to me, to remember me for me, not for the things I did.

Mathieu Yuill:
My eulogy said I wanted to be known as the most handsomest man in Ontario has died. That’s what I said.

Monica Loewen:
You and I obviously wrote different papers.

Mathieu Yuill:
I’ve got to go revisit that now. Oh man, now I feel bad. I think that was my only fail in [inaudible 00:30:34]. I’m only kidding. Okay, well listen, Monica, where do people find out, where do you want to send them? We’ve talked about a few things. We’ve talked about the Pregnancy Care Center. We’ve talked about your current role. Where can people go to learn more about a few of the things you’ve talked about today?

Monica Loewen:
I write about some of them on my blog, monicaloewen.com. So you can find out about me there.

Mathieu Yuill:
That’ll be linked in the show notes for sure, so check it out if you’re listening on YouTube or on the podcast. The URL is in the show notes.

Monica Loewen:
And otherwise, you know what, yeah, I’ve been involved in, like you said, Pregnancy Care Center, involved in local missions with our church right now. Go into your community, find out what kind of good work is going on there, helping people.

Mathieu Yuill:
Awesome. If you’re listening, and an organized faith community is not part of your jam, but you’re like, oh, I like some of the good things, if you’re looking to get involved in good community works, now, I know there’s other places you can look for this, too, but your local church might actually be doing a social justice initiative that really aligns with your values. So definitely check that out, as well. I know, Monica, your approach to that is about serving people first. So definitely if you’re in Lethbridge, check that out.

Mathieu Yuill:
Okay, listen, there’s a few people I’ve got to thank, because this doesn’t just happen. First of all, Cindy Craig, she did all the coordination, organization, making sure Monica and I were able to connect. Naomi is my assistant, who helps me prepare for this. She makes sure the questions are laid out properly and I can find them. She’s also going to make sure that after this recording is done, that it gets edited and sent to the right people, et cetera.

Mathieu Yuill:
Carrie Cotton is our account manager, and literally every show, I see her doing some work in the background, and because she’s doing work, I can take time out to have these conversations. So thank you to Carrie. Jamie Hunter is our content manager. If you are here, listening to this, it’s thanks to him. If you saw it on social, it’s thanks to him. Sam did all the graphic design work, and Austin Pomeroy, I think I’ve only seen him in real life twice because we communicate virtually, even though he’s just down the street, but he’s the audio engineer on this and does some production and producing for us. And man, without all those people, you would not be listening to this right now. So I just want to say thank you very much.

Mathieu Yuill:
You can find us at leadingwithnice.com. Monica, thank you so much for taking time today.

Monica Loewen:
Thank you, Matthew. It’s been fantastic.

Mathieu Yuill:
Have a great day, everybody. We’ll talk to you again soon.